Chatting with Marie Schleisner

Danish dressage rider and dressage horse drawn carriage rider Marie Schleisner lives just outside of Copenhagen. Marie works as a dentist and has a dental practice in Copenhagen. Always fascinated by the heavy horses, Marie has two Clydesdales, Ferdinand. a six-year-old, and Cormac, who is four-years-old. She also helps train a couple of young Clydesdales, three and four-year-olds, who are slowly being introduced to riding and driving. Marie says “I do not work professionally with horses. I enjoy being around the horses simply because it makes me happy. I find it incredibly exciting and satisfying to learn something new or to become better at something together with my gentle giants”

 

How did horses come into your life?

I rode as a child but stopped when I was eighteen years old moving to Copenhagen to study dentistry. I continued to live in Copenhagen until I was about thirty-nine years old and didn’t really think I would have the opportunity to be around horses in my daily life again. But there were upheavals in my life that caused my priorities to change. I wanted to get out of the city – I wanted to be closer to nature and ended up living in the countryside. Here there were horses everywhere and the desire to ride suddenly came back. I signed up for the local riding school – and after the first riding lesson I had fallen in love with a large 6-year-old Swedish Ardenner, which I practically bought on the spot.

I experienced that there could be challenges in having a large draft horse in a stable full of warmblood horses, so I had to find an alternative. I sought out a draft horse stud (Saane Clydesdales), where my big draft horse was allowed to move in. It was truly a game changer! Here my horse got playmates his own size, and I met people with a love for – and an understanding of – draft horse horses. The social community and the opportunities to work with the heavy breeds at Saane Clydesdales were fantastic. At this stable I was introduced to the Clydesdale breed and from there things took off.

I have always been fascinated by the heavy breeds – right from childhood. My mother has a forty-year-old picture of me as a five-year-old girl petting a Jutland horse (a distinctly heavy draft horse of Danish origin). I remember it clearly; I simply thought it was the most beautiful and powerful, almost majestic horse I had ever seen. Physically, I am quite small, so to some it may seem strange that I ride horses that measure 180-190 cm and weigh 850-900 kg. At first, many thought that I had not had the opportunity to ride warmblood horses. This is not the case. I have always made an active choice to work with and ride draft horses. Even though in some ways this is a disadvantage or presents challenges. As a child and teenager, I also chose the slightly heavier breeds. I rode dressage and jumping with Fjord horses, which was very unusual back in the early nineties. As an adult, my love has fallen on the Clydesdale horses, although I do not rule out working with other heavy breeds than Clydesdales in the future.

 

Can you offer any words of wisdom for someone who would like to do dressage with a draft horse?

I think I find it interesting to do something that not many others do. To follow my own path and set my own goals. Many people might find it impossible to ride dressage on a draft horse. And with good reason – we will never belong to the elite. But I think it is fun and rewarding to see how far we can go within the framework, possibilities and potential a draft horse might have for dressage.

I am careful about generalizing the characteristics of a draft horse. All heavy horses are different. But the quality I really like about my two Clydesdales is that they are incredibly happy to be around humans. They remind me so much of Labrador dogs. They are good-natured, extremely social and very eager to work with me. They are very gentle and love to please. They love praise and recognition. Praise and recognition are therefore important and supporting elements when they are to be trained. Many would probably describe my horses as calm and more stable than most warmbloods. That might also be true. But it has not come about by itself. It requires training and education of the horse, and it takes time to “create” a calm horse that confidently solves the tasks.

Some mistakenly believe that draft horses are always – and without exception – calm and uncomplicated to handle. That you can just let them walk in a field until they are 5 years old and then take them in and harness them to a cart right away. This is not true. They need to be handled, trained, raised and accustomed to unfamiliar things like any other horse. They need to trust that what we offer them is something they can handle. My experience is that it is an advantage to start while the draft horse is young. Of course, they don’t carry or pull anything. It’s not physical training. It’s more like mental and environmental training. For example, I like to take the young horse for walks, so they experience everything you encounter when you ride or drive them later in their lives. In general, I find that frequent, but very, very short training sessions work well for the young horse. Small steps at a time where I try to set it all up so that the horse experiences success with the small tasks every time.  The goal is that the horse trusts me and – even more important – that he gains confidence that he can relax and deal with whatever challenges he will meet as a riding and driving horse. All the above being said, I’m not a professional horse trainer. These are just examples of what has worked for me and my horses.

 

Who do you train with?

The help of passionate and qualified people is crucial for me and the training of the horses. I couldn’t do it on my own. I have several different trainers – depending on the discipline. In many ways, I would describe myself as relatively inexperienced in relation to horses. I rode as a child and teenager, had a break of twenty two years and started riding again at the age of forty (I’m forty five now).

In dressage, I get lessons from rider Jannie Nichum. Only fours years ago I had never driven horses, but thought it would be fun to try disciplines that draft horses were originally bred for: pulling tools and carts. Driving horses is both difficult and dangerous if you don’t get the right help. So, I looked for a skilled teacher who could help me get started and improve my skills as my horse and I got better. In addition, it is of course also very important to have good cooperation with the blacksmith, veterinarian, stable staff, saddler, etc. to ensure that the horses have the best conditions to be healthy and comfortable.

 

It takes a team to do dressage, who is in your support team?

My trainers, farrier, veterinarian and stable staff. And I can’t forget my husband! He always helps and supports me – even though equestrian sports are not his big interest.

 

What do you love about dressage?

I love working with my horses and enjoy the trust and friendship you build together. In Denmark, there has recently been a great focus on horse welfare in dressage. This autumn, new assessment criteria will be introduced in the Danish dressage programs, which place greater emphasis on the horses being relaxed, without stress markers and positively accepting of the rider’s helpers. I welcome these changes, as the harmonious interaction between horse and rider is to me, the beauty and essence of dressage and what I’m aiming for.

 

Proudest dressage moment?

I can’t point out a specific event that I’m particularly proud of. But I’m proud that I do something different than everyone else. When I take Ferdinand to dressage competitions, I experience a huge amount of interest and curiosity from both spectators and other participants in the dressage competitions. People are very positive and a little impressed that you can ride dressage on a horse that was bred to pull heavy carts with coal in Scotland. Many want to say hello to Ferdinand and ask about everything from his shoe size to his weight, how much he eats and whether it is difficult to ride dressage on a heavy horse etc. I think that the dressage judges’ assessments/grades are completely fair and accurate when we ride dressage competitions. They have never made a distinction – we are judged on an equal footing with all the warmbloods. As my trainer told me the other day: “You have been accepted in the competition dressage arenas – even though Ferdinand is big and different”

 

What is your training philosophy?

I do not have a specific philosophy that I train slavishly according to. I believe that training horses is too complex to be standardized and put into a formula. I try being curious and meet the individual horse respectfully and with attention to how he responds to me. I adjust my approach to the training continuously depending on his behavior.

I believe that it is important that there are some basic things that must be in place so that the horses are unstressed, harmonious and have the best conditions for learning and performing. These can be conditions such as, for example, that the horses have good opportunities for free movement in their daily lives and can establish social relationships with other horses. This will typically mean that the horses go to large areas in a herd or with a good friend daily. Not just paddocks or smaller enclosures without physical contact with other horses. Preferably in loose pastures and in areas with vegetation that can meet the horse’s natural need to find food/graze for many hours. I know that not everyone has the physical framework that can accommodate horses coming to huge enclosures. Others are also concerned about injuries when horses are herded. But I believe it is so crucial to the horses’ well-being that I have chosen to make it a high priority for my horses.

I do many different things with my horses: I ride dressage, I drive dressage with a horse-drawn carriage. I also pull timber with them and have been introduced to field work such as ploughing. And I also really enjoy riding without a bridle – also in nature. Instead, the horse has a strap around its neck (called a cordeo), which I only use to a limited extent. Of course, this requires that the horse is obedient to my voice as well as my seat and legs. It is a huge satisfaction and a great feeling of freedom when my horse is so attentive, trusting and obedient that I can ride it in nature without a bridle.

I drive a two-horse team with Ferdinand and Cormac. We often go driving in the North Zealand countryside, and we always have the company of other horse people and friends. It’s one of the nicest things I know. It’s easier to talk to each other when you’re sitting in the horse-drawn carriage compared to when you’re riding. – And it’s good for the horses. They become familiar with all types of traffic, different surfaces and terrain. It’s fantastic environmental training. I simply love driving a two-horse team. In addition to the cooperation between me and the horses, a good cooperation between the two horses. Is mandatory. It’s very interesting to see how they help, support and learn from each other. The “old” one, who is 6 years old, shows the young one, who is 4 years old, how to do it. At the same time, I can feel that the “old” one is much more secure and confident when he has his young companion with him. In a two-horse team, a friendship and a working community are formed between the horses, and I try to support this as best as possible while being the captain setting the agenda and showing the way.

Versatility is an advantage:

Some might think that I do (too) many different things and disciplines with the horses, and that this could be a disadvantage. I don’t think so. I see it as an advantage to do different things and varied training with the horses. I often experience synergy, where training in one discipline also improves skills in other disciplines. For example, I feel that it is an advantage in driving dressage that you also ride your driving horse dressage. And vice versa; when the young horse is already used to pull a cart, it is incredibly much easier to start riding, as many basic things are already in place. The horse has already learned to learn and is comfortable being presented with new situations and tasks. During driving and timber pulling, I use my voice a lot to communicate with the horses. This is a huge advantage when I ride – especially without a bridle or when I work with the horses from the ground. It’s not just words and sounds that they react to, but also the pitch (light or deep voice) as well as how I put the stress on the individual syllables and what energy I put into the verbal commands.

I don’t find that the horses get confused by training several different disciplines; they can easily distinguish that they must work in a certain way when they pull something without wheels (e.g. a tree trunk or a field tool) and in a different way when they pull a cart with wheels. In the same way, I find that the horse’s attention and my precision and timing are sharpened when I ride with a cordeo. It helps me when we ride dressage with a bridle.

Finally, I think that it is healthy for the horses to have varied and diverse training. Both physically and mentally. It stimulates them positively that the tasks are diverse and take place in different places.  A typical week could be: dressage on the track twice, riding in nature with a cordeo once a week, pulling timber/working in the forest once every second week and going on a trip with the horse-drawn cart to unknown places a couple of times a week for 1-2 hours.

 

What advice would you give to someone who would like to own a draft horse?

Firstly, find a trainer that value and understand the draft horses’ advantages. Secondly, find a stable/community with other draft horses.  If it is possible to find a training stable/stud with other draft horses, it can be a huge advantage. The community, exchange of experience and savings around the heavy breeds is a great advantage. The horses also make friends of their own size.

 

What are your future aspirations?

Just to get better – both as a driver, as a rider and as a horse person. I love being inspired and learning new things.

 

Your Top Tip

Be patient, diligent and persistent. Listen to your horse and make the horse’s well-being your most important priority.

 

What is the best piece of advice that you have ever been given?

Be positive and thankful.

 

Want More?

If you enjoyed meeting Marie you might like to view more dressage rider “chatting with” interviews here. You can keep up with Marie’s progress and visit her instagram page here